Universal Access To All Knowledge
Home Donate | Store | Blog | FAQ | Jobs | Volunteer Positions | Contact | Bios | Forums | Projects | Terms, Privacy, & Copyright
Search: Advanced Search
Anonymous User (login or join us)
Upload

Reply to this post | See parent post | Go Back
View Post [edit]

Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Jan 15, 2010 10:14am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Whats so damn atheistical about the dead?

" I don't want to start discussing my faith here... but it seems to me that a community built upon the principles of the grateful dead should be just as inclusive as any concert. "

What is it with most Christians that they can't see how exclusive THEY are? You're right about there being many spiritual themes and specific Christian references in GD music. But if you want to reference this you should also take into account actual quoted opinions. For instance I've read several articles where Jerry says a lot of positive things about Christianity but also states when Gans commented how they're told their experience is the ultimate Jerry replied - and this is an actual quote - " yeah, well, who's the asshole that tells them that?"

I don't know anyone who has a big problem with people who actually follow the tenents of Jesus' teachings - the problem is the ones that do aren't the ones you find at church or the ones calling out to everyone that they are Christians.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: jglynn1.2 Date: Jan 15, 2010 10:37am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Whats so damn atheistical about the dead?

Pretty much agree with you. For me, personally, I find Church fairly meditative and reflective . . . it is also a weekly reminder of just how feeble and weak I am and how I should be more humble and less egotistic. I am also the type of person who likes routines - and the Catholic Church is excellent at routine/ritual.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Jan 15, 2010 12:38pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Whats so damn atheistical about the dead?

hey j, I wasn't trying to bash you, your beliefs, or how you choose to live your life. I hope you know that. I'm more referring to the hard core divisive judgemental types. They're the ones who really turn the rest of us off.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: jglynn1.2 Date: Jan 16, 2010 1:17pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Whats so damn atheistical about the dead?

No sweat Jots, I did not thing you were bashing.

No offense taken and none given.

Peace, Jim

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: groovernut Date: Jan 15, 2010 1:00pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Whats so damn atheistical about the dead?

I do not want to bash any individual either, my discontent is with the organization, not individuals.
To the point, I don't think this type of organized religion was/is at the core of the GD. In fact I think that it was a movement away from the clergy and step closer to global consciousness and awareness without the need for interpretation. We and the world are god.... it's right here for us to shape and enjoy. Do the right thing, be adventurous and free with your love. Guard you freedom it's the best!

"I like anything that makes the world better"

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Jan 15, 2010 1:15pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Whats so damn atheistical about the dead?

" We and the world are god"

in all the interviews with Garcia I've never heard him say anything like that. His views were more related to consciousness in the Universal sense and everything I've read that he has said implies that he believed there to be a higher organizational nature to it all. Not some guy in a white beard and robe but definitely not just randomw either.

Of course I'm not saying what YOU should believe, I'm saying if you're going to ascribe that to the GD or their music then that doesn't really fit anything I've heard Garcia say or sing about.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: groovernut Date: Jan 15, 2010 1:26pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Whats so damn atheistical about the dead?

LOL, Jerry did not say that. I'm saying that... sorry if that was confusing. I may quote Jerry, but I did not know the man nor can I claim to understand what he and GD are about...to be sure this is just like my opinion, man!

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Jan 15, 2010 1:35pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Whats so damn atheistical about the dead?

it was confusing because you didn't start a new paragraph

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: groovernut Date: Jan 15, 2010 10:50am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Whats so damn atheistical about the dead?

They also excel at abusing little boys and guilting people into giving them money. Not to mention there knack for condemning "gays" and other minorities to HELL... good folks for sure...

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: jglynn1.2 Date: Jan 15, 2010 11:13am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Whats so damn atheistical about the dead?

Yeah, Any large institution or community is going to have its share of problems. I am not saying Catholicism is perfect or works for everybody, all I'm saying is it works for me. Oh, and I've never heard my parish priests condemn anyone to hell . . . in fact they seem quite tolerant.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: buscameby Date: Jan 15, 2010 12:05pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Whats so damn atheistical about the dead?

I too was raised "catholic" and attended Jesuit educational schools.

I had one priest tell me there was no God in HS and the heads of the religious studies and philosophy departments were both
ex priest.

I loved that they tried to teach us to look for ourselves, use our gifts of reason and find our own answer.

By the way, it was until I left the "church" that I found out that the word "catholic" meant universal, all inclusive*S*.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: groovernut Date: Jan 15, 2010 11:21am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Whats so damn atheistical about the dead?

@jglynn1.2
"Any large institution or community is going to have its share of problems. "

Exactly why they are to be avoided. Beside the catholic church has brought more hate and intolerance into the world than most other "institutions". Any clergy that is openly gay will be removed....those that molest small boys will be protracted. If a clergy drifts to far from catholic doctrine (not the bible) they will be expelled, not mater how god loving they are... I think it's important you know what you are buying into when you mediate and partake of there "ritual".


Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: headgdhead Date: Jan 15, 2010 11:57am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Whats so damn atheistical about the dead?

The Roman Catholic Church I was brought up in taught me it was about choice and free will. If someone in the Church is coercing you then it is outside the Church's teaching. I'm not sure where you're getting your ideas about being sent to hell but being gay isn't going to send you there. Check your 10 commandments, being gay isn't there either. However if you are out of compliance with any of the ones that are there then go to confession for forgiveness and you're back in His good graces. If you're a believer of course.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: groovernut Date: Jan 15, 2010 12:38pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Whats so damn atheistical about the dead?

If your not in compliance (with the big 10), no need to tell anybody. Changing your ways is much more powerful.
Telling somebody so they can forgive you is just an excuse for them to manipulate you. In fact that confession nonsense is nowhere to be found in the bible..go figure.

I get my facts from life and news... Here is some pseudo science projected by the Catholic church... this is petty common view amongst Catholics.

http://www.catholic.com/library/Homosexuality.asp

And YES there are MANY GREAT PEOPLE/TEACHERS in the catholic camp... nothing is all bad!

Anyway let's get back to the shows....

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: headgdhead Date: Jan 16, 2010 7:25am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Whats so damn atheistical about the dead?

"If your not in compliance (with the big 10), no need to tell anybody."

If you're not Catholic then that is true.

Do you really want to turn this into a bible thread?

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: BornEasement Date: Jan 15, 2010 11:40am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Whats so damn atheistical about the dead?

Actually all you need to "buy into" by calling yourself a catholic is the creed, which contains no political, social, or "worldly" teachings other than that you believe things which, frankly, no one can DISprove.

Charles Manson killed people because of the Beatles, does that make the Beatles bad? no.

People have done horrible things in the name of the church, does that make the church bad? no. Read the Nicene Creed if you want to know what makes the church what it is.

And I didn't mean to argue that the Dead were all Christians, just that they would never sing songs or speak out openly against people having faith. Or they never did, in my memory.

And if you want people committing wrongful acts in the name of Atheism.. how about Communist Russia? Worst genocide in history, to my memory.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: groovernut Date: Jan 15, 2010 11:52am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Whats so damn atheistical about the dead?

"Charles Manson killed people because of the Beatles, does that make the Beatles bad? no."

Nini Nony.... Mason killed because he was a lunatic. Don't be silly.


These wars however WHERE fought because of the "CHURCH"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusades

(can you say POLITICAL AGENDA?)

If you read the bible and like the message know that the Catholic church does not adhere to those principal.

My point is that if all you want is mediation and ritual you have better options that the catholic church.

I don't call my self a christian but believe many of the principle are fantastic and I have read the good book.

As pointed out by others there is no problem with Christ or the bible, it's specifically what the catholic church has done with these principle that I find disgusting.

And yes Stalin was a wicked man.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: headgdhead Date: Jan 16, 2010 5:30am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Whats so damn atheistical about the dead?

The crusades were a direct response to the Muslim invasion of Europe. Yes the Church sanctioned them but at that point in history the Church in Europe was much more than a religious organization. In today's world they would be a combination of the UN, US Fed, IMF, Red Cross and Salvation Army in addition to being the Holy See. Remember this was the end of the Dark Ages. Western civilization broke down at the end of the Roman Empire and the Roman Catholic Church was the only surviving entity. Enough history let's just say the Crusades were no different than any other war, they were about power and money. PERIOD

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: William Tell Date: Jan 16, 2010 1:18pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Whats so damn atheistical about the dead?

There is a problem here...to say that you can divorce the PR from the traditional desires of human kind is to demean the whole exercise. It's like saying, "Hitler was just about power and money"...

C'mon; you know better.

What the folks did in the name of the Church in the New World was NOT entirely about money and power. The folks busy converting people against their will were not in it for that...likewise with the crusades.

Not really sure if you are defending the Church or burying it though...

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: spacedface Date: Jan 16, 2010 7:06pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Whats so damn atheistical about the dead?

"The crusades were a direct response to the Muslim invasion of Europe."

Bzzzd, sorry wrong! Not only that but the Crusaders destroyed Constantinople and the Byzantine Empire.

The Crusades were based on lies to the gullible. Sound familiar?

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: headgdhead Date: Jan 17, 2010 5:02pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Whats so damn atheistical about the dead?

"The Crusades were based on lies to the gullible. Sound familiar?"

Don't be so gullible it was a war just like all the others. The Muslims invaded Spain and then France starting in 711. Europe was in the midst of the Dark Ages and had no armies to resist the invaders. Over time they built up their armies and stopped the Muslims at Tours in 732. Eventually they pushed them out of France and northern Spain. It was then that they decided to take the fight to the Arab homeland by organizing the Crusades. The Muslims were finally pushed out of Spain in 1492.

The Muslims took Constantinople in 1453. They laid siege to Vienna in 1529 but failed to take the city. This ended 800 years of Muslim wars against Europe. There was all kind of intrigue through out this period, Europeans and Arabs aligning and dividing their loyalties based on perceived or real opportunities for power and money just like any other war.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: spacedface Date: Jan 18, 2010 12:24am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Whats so damn atheistical about the dead?

Ahk, how could I forget Islamic Spain, Sicily, and Italy, and the transfer of culture that caused the birth of the Renaissance, Humanism, Scholasticism, and the Enlightenment?

I still disagree with the direct part "The crusades were a direct response to the Muslim invasion of Europe." I should be more precise, as should you.

See here for some things from 1200:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Crusade

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: headgdhead Date: Jan 18, 2010 5:28am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Whats so damn atheistical about the dead?

There was an 800 year war conducted between Islam and the west on the continent of Europe and throughout the Mediterranean. The Crusades were part of that war. The direct association of these events could not be clearer.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: spacedface Date: Jan 18, 2010 8:35pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Whats so damn atheistical about the dead?

And the bloodthirsty worldwide expansion for 500 years after the Reconquest is a direct response to what?

Yes the Great Game has gone on for longer than that, perhaps back earlier than Jesus himself who himself opposed Western idolatry and imperialism.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: headgdhead Date: Jan 19, 2010 4:23am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Whats so damn atheistical about the dead?

And what "bloodthirsty worldwide expansion" would that be?

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: spacedface Date: Jan 20, 2010 3:38pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Whats so damn atheistical about the dead?

Have you heard of colonialism, you know, the European empires ruthless domination of the world.

The US is holding on tight but is over-extended (count the military bases), and seems to not to want to bow out with grace. As you may have realized, this darkness has got to give.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: headgdhead Date: Jan 22, 2010 4:40am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Whats so damn atheistical about the dead?

Which goes to my original point that all wars are fought for power and money, not religion.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: spacedface Date: Jan 20, 2010 3:43pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Whats so damn atheistical about the dead?

And since I live here, I'd rather go out in grace, being generous in body and spirit.

That would mean basically holding true to our principles. Right now we're flirting with disaster and exposing ourselves and children to instabilities that could lead to movements and opportunities for criminal leadership even beyond the Cheneyesque, with powers that would make Hitler blush.

If we end up with a fundamentalist FrankenBarbie, we could only assume we are being punished by God and exposed as a laughing stock, and in a world of trouble.